Get out and vote!

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I had sworn off blogging until I got these first 30 chapters revised, but this is important. At least it is to me.

Jo Bourne is in the DAB WAHA contest and it’s coming down to the wire. We’d appreciate it if you could vote for her.

Jo, for those of you who don’t know her is a RITA finalist with both her debut novel and the sequel this year. Go Jo!

This Post Has 19 Comments

  1. CNU

    You know it’s really unprofessional to go to someone’s blog and torch them personally for one’s own personal gain. I can tell you’re the type that likes to troll on other people’s pages and hit them because it suits your purpose, whatever that was. I wasn’t personally attacking Ms. Reid. I was stating an opinion that currently literary agents ought to change some of their practices and that they are being viewed as evil bouncers. Whereas if they changed their practices they’d change how they are being perceived.

    You then took that as a message that you needed to take a swipe at me. The truth is that literary agents are not governed by US law whatsoever and you know this to be true. There aren’t any penalties for unscrupulous behavior. (*unlike say real estate agents who can’t even sneeze without ethics violations*)

    I don’t know you personally, but from the looks of it you have a vindictive streak to attack anyone who disagrees with you personally and *attempt* to discredit them.

    You don’t know me as a writer (*so the swipe about my printer is just sad*) OR a person and the fact that you claim to is insulting. I don’t know you personally either so I can’t claim to know what you’re all about, but it seems to be attacking someone’s sense of worth, work ethic and personal values.

    I’d figure age would have given you wisdom, but apparently that adage is false. Try to be a little more mature in the future. (*If you read my whole comment it said please try to be civil. Which meant check the baggage at the door please. Keep the conversation focused on the topic.)

    Lastly, what I meant about the male boss was a metaphor (*I’m sure you’ve come across that word at some point in your travels…) which was this:

    A manuscript that appears to be ‘marketable’ to a demographic or fad (E.g. vampires, pirates, white women, whatever*) even though it may be dreadful, if more desirable than a manuscript that isn’t marketed as well, but is a quality piece of writing. I’m not saying just me personally I’m saying this in general.

    EVERY writer has confidence in their self worth and abilities. If that’s egotistical, then I am. I don’t give a damn. What you wrote was horrid dribble aimed at me personally. It was rude, unprofessional and perhaps even influenced by others.

    I don’t like commenting on Janet Reid’s site because of individuals like you, who can’t build a cogent argument so they resort to throwing mud.

    -C

  2. Julie Weathers

    CNU, I posted on Janet’s and this site to make sure you don’t miss it. I have to go to work now, but will be happy to have further discourse on this subject when I get home.

    In the meantime, please find some proof where I went to your blog and torched you. First rule, get your facts straight before launching an attack. Otherwise you look like a drama queen or king as the case may be.

  3. CNU

    Wait where? On Janet’s site. Did you have a memory lapse? You went on my page, searched through- found out I was indie, then tried to say this gave you the right to insult my writing and stated that my points weren’t valid because of it and that it was due to an inflated ego and lack of talent…

    Does any of this sound familiar? I don’t think you’d appreciate it if I found a piece of information I gleaned off your site then used it to throw it in your face. Reread your post on Janet’s site. Then reread my response. I did research your post which was ridiculous and aimed at attacking me as opposed to the question at hand. That’s what I took issue with and yes I was rather annoyed at it. I took it personally because it was made to be personal.

    -C

  4. Merry Monteleone

    CNU,

    You could very well have responded at Janet’s blog where the discussion started, instead you decided to follow Julie’s link and insult her personally there (which is kind of ironic, considering what you’re apparently miffed about in the first place).

    If you don’t want people to be able to follow your link and see who you are and what your credentials are, don’t post it openly. I saw your original comment at Janet’s and if it wasn’t intentionally inflammatory, you might want to get a tighter reign on your writing abilities.

    You made a lot of widespread assumptions about agents and the publishing industry in general in your comment there, which probably did read as condescending and antagonistic to the people who are following a traditional route – and on an agent’s blog, that’s likely to be the majority.

    If you’re going to post those kinds of comments, you have to be willing to defend them. Julie didn’t say anything out of line in pointing out that you’re self-published… ‘Indie’ would indicate a small press and I’m assuming that if your work is put out through lulu, it’s actually self-published. That’s not a swipe, it’s a statement. If you are published through a publisher, correct me.

    I took issue with many of the same arguments in your comment, I just didn’t bother to respond. Correlating the sexist job applicant scenario to query letters was ludicrous, as were much of your thoughts on the publishing industry putting out commercial books that are inferior. It’s fine if you think it, but genre writers aren’t likely to agree with the assessment and are liable to feel insulted at the insinuation.

    I’m not going to your blog, because you obviously don’t want visitors there – I did stop over when I first saw this comment, but didn’t comment or stay. The natural inclination when you leave these kinds of comments is for people to follow the link and see who you are. That’s not trolling. Trolling is when someone purposely leaves comments on a post aimed at personally attacking the blogger with no relevance to the post or subject matter…. kind of like you did here.

  5. CNU

    Reread Weather’s post on Reid’s blog…. Reread it.
    It was trolling. No joke.

    She implied statements about my writing for being “printed’ from lulu. I realize it’s not technically ‘published’ through traditional means. She then made assumptions about me personally, my writing, my work ethic etc. I stated the reasons why I went down the self publishing route on my blog, “No Trolls Allowed.”

    I made no personal attacks towards weathers other than to say that it was unprofessional to attack me ‘the poster’ as opposed to the point of view that is the very definition of trolling. (*please look up the word, google it*)

    Plus coming to my site to merely gain information then try to use it in a tirade against me is just bogus. I attacked NO one personally on Janet’s site. I stated an opinion and then stated I wanted VALID opinions back. I didn’t mind the other posters, which stated OPINIONS not slander (*unverifiable statements against someone with limited evidence.*)

    I didn’t troll her site, otherwise I’d go into a public forum and say something like, “Gee I saw some of your writing on your page and it was sub par”

    That’s what she did. She took one random piece of info and used that to infer things about my writing and character. Then to slam me personally.

    Her statements about using a printing service (*which is what lulu is*) were off base and insulting, because she said, “I believe your writing is bad otherwise you’d have a great agent like me!” which was just as condescending as you claim I was being, which I wasn’t. I was direct. Sorry if being sarcastic and opinionated hurt people’s feelings, but I didn’t resort to attacking her personally or professionally.

    Agents need to defend their industry by improving their methods. Plain and simple. Right now people dislike agents for obvious reasons. Some of which I stated. I’m not stating ALL agents, but the list that the other blogger put up, most agents don’t apparently adhere to.

    I DID respond in Reid’s blog, she didn’t post my response because it’d start a firestorm. However I don’t take kindly to people making random allegations about my character. Plain and simple.

    I didn’t want to start down this road, but if you read her comment it’s out of line and should have been removed.

    -C

  6. Merry Monteleone

    CNU,

    I did read her comment. I read yours, too. Telling me to go back and read it again isn’t going to make me agree with your point of view.

    I made no personal attacks towards weathers other than to say that it was unprofessional to attack me ‘the poster’ as opposed to the point of view that is the very definition of trolling. (*please look up the word, google it*)

    Re-read that, putting yourself in the position of being the person it’s addressed to – is it ringing as slightly condescending yet? If not, you’re not being honest – oh, wait, obviously you’re not being honest because you state that you made no personal attacks outside of saying the comment was unprofessional…

    I can tell you’re the type that likes to troll on other people’s pages and hit them because it suits your purpose…

    Calling someone a troll isn’t personal?

    from the looks of it you have a vindictive streak to attack anyone who disagrees with you personally and *attempt* to discredit them.

    – just adding the disclaimer, ‘I don’t know you personally’, doesn’t make it any less of a personal attack, it just makes you less forthright about the intent.

    I’d figure age would have given you wisdom, but apparently that adage is false

    Because if all else fails, play the age card…

    (*I’m sure you’ve come across that word at some point in your travels…)

    – because insinuating someone is stupid isn’t the same thing as stating it boldly?

    Look, you can follow any professional path you want to. You can indie publish, self-publish, traditionally publish, whatever. Good luck with it. I’m not arguing about your writing or method in any way at all. Frankly, it’s none of my business how other people choose to pursue their writing and I don’t have a judgment on it. There’s enough judgment in the world.

    But this little diatribe went off the road of professional discussion long ago. These were personal attacks. Julie did note that you don’t have an agent and are self-published. She didn’t say that made your writing crap, she gave of a list of scenarios that might be inciting your diatribe about agents. I’m sure she’ll be along to explain it herself, she’s not exactly shy.

    As far as this statement:

    Agents need to defend their industry by improving their methods.

    No, they don’t. Period. This business is what it is. It’s only as good as the people in it, just like every other avenue of life. There are plenty of good agents out there. That speaks volumes about them and their work on behalf of their clients… but they don’t owe you anything.

    And a very large percentage of the writers who say things of this nature have never worked with any agent. That’s not a snipe against you, it’s a statement. I don’t see how anyone forms a good judgment about any one person without dealing with them personally, let alone a whole population without dealing with even one of its members… and honestly, forming an opinion about all agents based on one is just as stupid as forming it based on hearsay and imagination.

    No. Agents don’t owe perspective or aspiring writers anything. They owe their own clients. That’s it. It’s our job to get through that door anyway we can get there… they don’t owe us anything.

    Give them something people are dying to read and they’ll open the door fast enough.

    As far as there not being any laws, there are a bevy of laws in the US about fraudulent business practices. Any writer querying should have done their homework as to the agents’ credentials.

  7. Merry Monteleone

    Agents don’t owe perspective or aspiring writers anything

    Obviously, that was supposed to be ‘prospective’… eesh, so much for a graceful stormy exit.

  8. CNU

    I only made my comments which were/are harsh after the comment made. Those ‘scenarios’ she discussed were what I was talking about… those weren’t scenarios at all, she was describing them as fact. Saying, “Given this then this.”

    Example: “All cats have four legs, dogs have four legs…. all cats are dogs.” (Don’t think about that too hard, logic problems are unpleasant.)

    “You self published- self publishers are arrogant- you are arrogant.”

    “Self publishers are bad writers- bad writers can’t get agents- you are a bad writer who can’t get an agent.”

    That’s what I’m talking about. She DID make a judgement call on the practice of using a printer to bind and print your work. (Which is pretty much what lulu does) guess what… that’s what traditional publishers do as well, just in a different format. My self published work has been in published periodicals, which means yes someone did actually read and distribute information about my work, because they believed it had merit.

    (*BTW just because something is condescending doesn’t make it a personal attack. I’m arrogant, sarcastic, pithy and yes a hot head. I’ll admit allll that.*)

    I’ll admit, saying the age thing was a swipe, but it’s a jab not a personal swing. If I said something about her books, her family, her lifestyle, her work ethic etc. THAT would have been out of line. That’s what she did.

    Saying ‘gee you’re old and mean’ is a slight jab and being the supposedly older more mature person she’ll be able to take that I assure you.

    I didn’t say agents owed me personally, they do owe their clients and those who take the time to submit. Yes I have had some run ins with agents, but most were negative not because of the work, but because of a lack of communication as to what work they accepted, what their guidelines were, what format they expected etc.

    Read my initial post then read what weathers responded to and you’ll see that although I’m sarcastic, pithy and yes a bit arrogant and condescending I am in no way taking a personal swing at anyone there. Then look at her post and the implications she’s making about my character in the first paragraph of the post.

    See the difference? No?

    (You can borrow my glasses… 😉 )

    Sorry couldn’t resist….

    -C

  9. Merry Monteleone

    Seriously? Okay, you’re not pithy, you’re far too long winded to be pithy and arrogance is really only acceptable if you’ve earned it – even then it doesn’t make you any less of an ass.

    But that’s fine with me. It’s far too time consuming to argue with you and pointless to boot. Carry on.

  10. Julie Weathers

    CNU,

    Let’s get this over with so you can move on with your life and try to recuperate from the trauma.

    1. First, unprofessional what? Exactly how does one in my profession act? I did not go to your blog and torch you personally for my personal gain. No one paid me a dime to make the comments I made on Janet Reid’s site. I did it gratis, though if someone would like to send me cookies or a book, I would gladly accept.

    Heck, I might even take up a job posting thought provoking comments on blogs for donations. I can set up a Paypal account. I can call my new business Provoking for Pennies. For you, however, I’m going to do it free because I like you.

    “I can tell you’re the type that likes to troll on other people’s pages and hit them because it suits your purpose, whatever that was.”

    OH NOES! You caught me. If you will look to the right you will see Friends and Colleagues and The Write Stuff. I troll those people and hit them whenever it suits my purpose. When it does suit my purpose, I post comments so they will know they suited my purpose. Sometimes my purposes are more casual or even naked, but mostly they are suited, which is suitable when suiting a purpose.

    “I wasn’t personally attacking Ms. Reid.”

    And a good thing you weren’t either. I’ve seen her in a banana-wielding monkey fight and it is a terrible thing indeed. I think she would have you soon begging for mercy.

    No, you attacked Rachelle Gardner, which is even worse. Janet Reid has fangs, I’ve seen them. Rachelle is made of cotton candy and stuff. Who the heck attacks cotton candy?

    Seriously, get off your hypocritical high horse and go read her blog instead of picking another opportunity to slam agents to soothe some resentment you have against the publishing industry.

    Here is a woman who works her tail off seven days a week from morning until bedtime with breaks in between for her family and you have the audacity to sit in your little self-righteous bubble and start whittling away at a thoughtful, intelligent post just so you could get another slam in at an agent.

    If you have so much bitterness and resentment you should have gone to Bookends when Jessica Faust invited writers to vent. It quickly turned into a hate fest filled with vitriol with a very few constructive thoughts sprinkled here and there.

    This is the second time Jessica’s done this. I personally think she has masochistic tendencies, but, hey, we all have to be somewhere.

    Afterward, I read several agents who posted about it and admitted the hatred hurt. Well, of course, it did. There are real people behind those agent labels and for the most part they are working their butts off in an industry that seems to be riddled with one explosion right after another.

    Rachelle comes along and posts a professional entry about what to expect from an agent.

    And you, with all your vim and vigor, come dashing in to champion the cause of all the downtrodden writers who have been thwarted by the steroidal gate-keepers. You’re going to put this agent in her proper place and speak up for all the writers out there who need an advocate. You will be the voice of freedom.

    You were condescending and antagonistic and yet you insisted anyone who responded to you must present a cogent argument without venom. Yeah, well, you really need to look up cogent since you can’t seem to grasp the concept.

    Many agents are members of AAR which has stringent guidelines. Those who don’t belong will tell you they follow those guidelines. There are, of course, some who don’t just as there are real estate agents who bend and break rules freely. I’ve been in the business, so I’m pretty familiar with it and there is a reason I am no longer in it.

    “Whereas if they changed their practices they’d change how they are being perceived.”

    Aside from AAR, there are several sites like Predators that are very willing to offer up any information about unscrupulous agents. Most agents actually advise authors to check out the site and they many times have links to in on their site.

    Your blanket attacks on all agents is what irks me. You sit in judgment, passing sentence on an entire industry and telling us poor writers what we need to be demanding. Some of us incompetent writers actually have minds of our own and can quite easily decide what we need. If we don’t like an agent’s policies, we can protest it by not submitting our work to them. If enough writers don’t submit queries they no longer have prospective clients. Though, most would probably look at a slowdown as an answer to prayer. They don’t get paid for reading queries, after all.

    I said it in the Agentfail and I will say it again now. Most of what people complained about is entirely unreasonable. They want personal replies. They want feedback. They want agents to read the book instead of requesting queries.

    My main request, and it isn’t even a complaint, send some kind of form rejection so I know you aren’t interested and keep your guidelines current. After reading an agent’s response today, explaining why she stopped sending form rejections to all queries is making me rethink that. She got tired of being cussed out when she sent form rejections.

    We sit in our little writer worlds and demand the agents act courteous and professional and yet what kind of treatment do they receive from the churning masses of aspiring writers? Most, like you, can’t wait for an opportunity to jump in and spit on them to show how powerful and brave you are.

    I will give you one thing, at least you didn’t hide under the anon rock. Of course, you can’t at Janet’s or perhaps you would have.

    “A manuscript that appears to be ‘marketable’ to a demographic or fad (E.g. vampires, pirates, white women, whatever*) even though it may be dreadful, if more desirable than a manuscript that isn’t marketed as well, but is a quality piece of writing. I’m not saying just me personally I’m saying this in general.”

    I don’t believe that for a moment. I think writing is what matters.

    Since your main complaint seems to be the steroidal gatekeepers, I would almost challenge you to an experiment. Choose one of your works. You say you have faith in your writing. Pick out ten agents and, this is very important, follow the instructions for submission.

    I would even do the same.

    I’m willing to venture a bet, just simply following instructions would yield some remarkable results. Put that together with a viable product and who tells what you can accomplish?

    Instead of railing about the system, rise to the top. Create something they can’t refuse.

    As for the age and wisdom crack, it’s really beneath you. Seriously, that’s a kindergarten insult.

    And, now, I have a fabulous manuscript to read about a very odd hero.

    I wish you a successful career and a good life Mr. Usera.

  11. CNU

    I can’t most of my work is both written and illustrated… which is why they’d need to see the manuscript. Queries die a cruel death in the inbox from hell which agents complain about all the time. It wasn’t formated or whatnot. Plus no attachments, because of all of those jerks making viruses- hacking etc…. but I digress….

    What I was arguing was about the use of personal info from my site: namely that I was self published, (which is true…) BUT you then went on a tirade about it.

    I had work that was illustrated and need to be bound with the writing to make sense. I chose a printer fair and simple. I loved my work so I even copyrighted it and went through hell doing the graphics work (Both painting and digital) and editing the work with the help of a writing professor, copyright lawyer and personal friend. A three page piece of writing went through ridiculous amount of revisions given the amount of type. I wanted a professional, printed version of my work to show publishers… then I learn you have to have an agent, then I learn agents are little rat bastards who judge you based on little to no evidence. I judge them based on those ridiculous parameters they have set up. Where are not based on seeing the work rather your “Explanation” of the work. (*Ever heard of the writing adage, “Show don’t tell” yeah they missed that one in class…) They care about markets and demographics because they have to make a living. But most take it too far and don’t seem to look at the writing. God forbid you should send something to a ‘reputable’ agent.

    “YOU sent this query to ME- Don’t you know I’m God and you’re crap???” (I’m paraphrasing what letter you’ll receive…)

    This is the part when you come in and say about my writing:

    “Gee *YOU*. key word there. must be a bad writer”

    “YOU* must be arrogant”

    “YOU must must suck at writing and agents hate your work” (*or some variation on that…) Well considering only one agent has seen my work that can’t even be true… so uh… you got me there…

    Wait…

    I NEVER insulted Rochelle or her blog. I SAID-

    I’d be NICE if agents actually did that stuff and in MY experience and a lot of others they don’t…..
    I hate agents because most of them aren’t even writers- they market stuff. They are the jocks, the bouncers, the testosterone driven jerks that get both respect and hatred.

    BTW for the record I didn’t have a problem with any of the other comments because most of them were well thought out and really insightful. I didn’t agree with them, but that’s the point of discussion otherwise you get a dull, dreadfully boring blog, where people smile and say,

    “Oh that’s great! great stuff.” There’s no dialogue no evolution or what you refer to as ‘drama.’ (*which is fine if you’d like*)

    This isn’t anything personal against you, but if I were to take some random info about your life off your blog to insert it into another blog you’d feel one of the following emotions probably:

    Survey says:

    1) Pissed.

    2) Creeped out.

    3) Maybe even dare I say violated.

    Or perhaps all of the above.

    I never said anything within my comments directed at anyone personally. It was a general statement which you inferred to be directed at Janet or Rochelle or whoever, when it was a general discontent about agents. Which normally people shrug off…but then again most comments aren’t well thought out. They sound like,

    “Me good, agent bad…”

    (The publishing industry in general is also getting beaten too, if you check out the blogs on the whole “Twilight” controversy. Which I think was started by Steven King actually… Check out Virginia Quarterly’s blog on that subject.*)

    Yes I’m a book snob. You’ll see me thumbing through a Bukowski book as opposed to J.K., but I digress….

    I suppose you wanted writing samples? The only thing I’ve got handy is poetry. I do also have an ad site for my “The Ones” book which is illustrated in spray paint, photographed and then put into digital form. The story is a post modern creation myth. It was/is a kid’s book, but if you read it… it’s one of those books you read as a kid and go “Gee cool” then you reread as an adult and go “Hey… wait a minute….” (Dr. Suess does that a lot actually describing his work as “Subversive as hell”)

    http://www.chichi-usera.deviantart.com

    I’m sharing because you asked. It might not be your taste. Some of it is macabre, not in a slasher movie sense in a Franz Kafka sense…(*Know what I mean?*) Some of it happens to be random scribblings, some is ancient, some is recent. The depressing stuff is recent. Check it out if you’re in doubt that I can’t put two words together…

    Yeah, the age thing was low…. I don’t even know your age. I was angry and assumed it was a soft spot. Sorry. (*wow a stranger wrangled an apology out of me… that’s random and extremely rare…*)

    See… if you had posted THAT comment… we wouldn’t be having this conversation and I wouldn’t have spent time machinating over it.

    Problem solved.

    -C

  12. Merry Monteleone

    Oh, I sooo should leave this alone, but maybe you’ll get something out of this.. then again, maybe you’ll just think I’m an ass – either way…

    You write graphic novels, correct?

    I happen to be friends with someone whose significant other does that very same thing and is employed by a biggie publisher.

    This in itself would do nothing for you – but in a normal circumstance where we met on a blog or through a writing forum, I would certainly drop my friend a line and see if I could forward you his email or send you to his site for any help or tips he could give you. That could’ve been a valuable networking opportunity.

    It might not have been anything. But you never know. You just wasted two days sniping to feel right on two different blogs populated by authors and industry professionals that might have been happy to help you if they were able.

    It’s kind of a waste of your time and worse, you might be shooting yourself in the foot in a very small industry. Graphic novels are even harder to crack into than fiction, from what I understand.

  13. CNU

    Well as far as Janet’s site I wasn’t sniping at anyone (*other than a general population: agents, which I explained in the comment above yours. ) 🙂 The only reason I’m on this blog was…well you know. yeah.

    Yes I can be hot headed sometimes and opinionated. I try my best not to make things personal or burn bridges.

    If you happen to know a contact and feel comfortable giving them my info or visa versa that’d be great. If you’re saying that’s kind of odd considering I’m a cynical guy with anger management issues similar to the character Dr. “House.”

    That’s also fine. I know this is a difficult industry to be in because it’s difficult to send files this large and sometimes people don’t accept attachments.

    I tried sending my novel through e-mail to a committee, but the size was too big so I had to send a print copy.

    I don’t know what genre my work falls under, though graphic novel is a catch all phrase these days for “illustrated work, which you can’t really define well” as oppose to a mere comic for example.(*Not to say comics aren’t great, it’s just the definition of a graphic novel seems broader now.)

    Neil Gaiman started out in comics, but also had work which blurred the lines between the two such as “Dream catchers.” So the title is a little ambiguous.

    If you want to help cool, if you don’t want to helpe but instead give me a morality lesson on stating an opinion which is controversial costing me contacts then yeah that is kind of jerky. You’re well within your rights to do that too, don’t feel obligated.

    Trust me I’m sure people have said FAR nastier things about agents. Writers are eccentrics, some of us are recluses, so agents will have to deal with some craziness. lol.

    If you want to preview the work the link is through the myspace in big bold red letters on the title page. It lets you view some of the art I think the first page to give you an idea of the work. It’s like a kid’s book, but with a subversive bite….well I really hate describing work because then it makes me just sound like I’m trying too hard. Everyone does when describing work which is why I can’t stand artist’s statements. I guess that’s why I reeeeeaaaaallllllyyyy dislike querying agents because when it’s difficult to describe something they take that as meaning something isn’t worth having.

    Tell me something have you ever come across something in life you couldn’t explain, but was an amazing experience nevertheless. Apparently a bunch of guys and gals behind the desk haven’t. Explaining something you dedicated a year to isn’t really inspiring…

    (*Sorry indulging my sarcastic sweet tooth again…*)

    http://www.myspace.com/theonesbook The link to the site to preview some of it is there. Feel free, but not obligated.

    Maybe you might actually see that I’m not a monster out to devour all the publishing industry.

    -C

  14. Julie Weathers

    Christian, I understand the publishing industry is frustrating. Unfortunately exercising a pronounced vitriol toward the professionals in the industry only hurts you. Rachelle Gardner really is one of the very sweetest agents around.

    A person really does need to bury the angst and work with these people.

    Go take a look at the Surrey IWC for last year. The two publishers that were there specialize in the younger market and one of them specifically said they are always looking for talented artists.

    Good conferences like Surrey are excellent places to make contacts. The agents and editors are there to find that next gem.

    I do wish you well in your search to be published.

  15. CNU

    Once again…. never said anything against Rachelle madam… You can look… I didn’t say “Gee this agent is like this” I said agents in my experience are… etc.

    Not once is it personalized. Search my comments.

    I told you why agents frustrate me.

    I believe it has validity because agents judge on your demographic before they read the manuscript. I don’t just mean genre, I mean they want you to submit a marketing plan as though you have a MBA in finance. If you can’t do that they construe it as a lack of talent or it says something about the work.

    That’s what’s annoying.

    I wish that publishers actually had their own underlings that handled material. That way you’d at least have the feeling that someone cared enough to read a few pages of type instead of giving vague esoteric guidelines, which are byzantine. One might argue that then writers would receive less money to which I’d say I’d rather receive less money than to deal with this process. I did all the leg work for this to include binding the work, copyrighting the work, the editing (w/ assistance.) the only thing the agent really would have had to do would be put it in the mail with a cover letter saying, “Do you want this?”I guess I’m frustrated because I’ve already done a lot of work promoting, marketing, writing, illustrating, digital work, mailings etc. Then people have the gall to say “Well you’re self published.” I’ll agree that industry is ugly and filled with large egos and shady business practices, but at least at lulu I could have a printer print and store my files digitally so I could print them at a rather low cost even one book at a time needs be, to do marketing. That’s why I used them.

    It’s not just ‘angst’ it’s a grievance which many people submitting work have against the industry. There needs to be something that can make both camps happy. That’s all I was suggesting and advocating. The fact that I’m angry and/or passionate is kind of irrelevant.

    I know I rub people the wrong way, but they need to read between the lines of what I’m stating otherwise they’ll never be able to even briefly understand another’s opinion or lifestyle or anything.

    I’m happy I state my opinions on my sleeve. I shouldn’t have to hide who or what I believe simply because it might ruffle some feathers so to speak.

    I am sorry for the inconvenience I’ve caused and the outburst. But really I was terribly upset at the whole, “You self publish thing which means etc etc. etc. “

    So that’s pretty much it. Right now I have to go I’ve got a magazine to speak with at one or one thirty or so. Interviews are fun.

    -C

  16. Julie Weathers

    Christian, I am not debating this any more. Everything has already been stated and restated.

    I will give you a clue, your attitude has a great deal to do with success.

    I do wish you success, but I think you have some issues you definitely need to work on and most professionals are not going to read between the lines to decipher what you really mean or try to analyze why you are so bitter.

    I imagine you will want to get the last word in, and that’s fine, but this is my final post on the subject. You brought the fight to my blog and I have the right to say when it’s over.

  17. CNU

    I’ve stated what I’ve stated- nothing more. This isn’t supposed to be a debate on objective reality, just the facts.

    I stated an opinion on a general population. Not a single person.

    You stated an opinion on myself personally, which is fine- but you never owned up to it.

    I at least owned up to what I said and why.
    You did not.

    You assumed because I printed something out at lulu’s that my work therefore has less merit. You did this in public.

    If I said “Hey I printed my manuscripts at Kinkos” would you have said all those nasty things to me personally? Of course not.

    I told you why I was upset at agents and why your comment I found offensive.

    This is my truth to the best of my ability. I wish you could have actually seen my POV for two seconds. But for claiming to be “arrogance free” you sure do sound like the genuine article. Everyone has problems or whatever you want to call it.

    Some people hide their flaws and some say “What of it?”

    I’m the latter.

    Lastly… my attitude shouldn’t matter, my work should. I wish people would understand that.

    -C

  18. Julie Weathers

    Ok, Christian, I said I would let you have the last word, and I did.

    Have a pleasant day.

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